How can the US and Canada support such apartheid which is considered worse, by some, than the one which existed in South Africa. One has to admire Brian Mulroney who, contrary to Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, opposed apartheid in South Africa. What is wrong with Stephen Harper and the so-called "Liberal" leader Michael Ignatieff? Michael Ignatieff does not come across as human. He is more like a robot who wants to be Prime Minister at any cost. The leadership situation in Canada is depressing. At least Obama recognizes the suffering of people in Gaza. Time will tell how his policies will materialize. There is no such hope from Harper and Iggy.
Now with Benjamin Netanyahu as Prime Minister of Israel, will things get any better? Does not look it? However, he and Obama may have serious enough differences that there may be a turn around for the better... maybe.
Here is a song, "There's a Tear in my Heart" which depicts the Gaza situation quite well.
Saturday, February 21, 2009
Gaza, Israel and Apartheid: There's a Tear in my Heart
According to some observers, conditions in apartheid South Africa were better than in Gaza. Apartheid is criminal, so what should we call the position of Israel with regards to the Palestinians.
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Because its not aparthied.
ReplyDeleteIts not Genocide.
Its not a holocaust.
Its not war crimes.
Jimmy Carter says it is apartheid. He is considered one of the best authorities on the Israeli/Palestinian situation. If that is true then rest of your argument is null and void.
ReplyDeleteDo you have more knowledge than Jimmy Carter?
Well Bill Clinton says its not aparthied and Israel is right and Hamas is wrong.
ReplyDeleteClinton was a far better President than Carter. Clinton knows the Middle East of today far better than Carter.
So, I guess all that I wrote is correct and you are wrong!
Do you have authentic reference where Clinton says that?
ReplyDeleteAnyway Monica Lewinsky believes him too. So there you have something in common with Lewinsky.
Lousy source on your part.
Yup. Let's not believe Jimmy Carter, the person who probably came closest to getting a peace agreement in the region....
ReplyDeleteInstead, let's go with C-Nuck who thinks it's perfectly all right because it's happening to Palestinians - but if it were to happen to Jews, then it would be Genocide, holocaust and war crimes...
Because that's just the way it is...
Israel, right or wrong but always right....
Here LeDaro:
ReplyDeleteInterpret this as a statement of principle from a commander in chief.
Doesn't seem to jive with Jimmy Carter's view.
"Our job is to never forget that the threat of violence is real. Our job
is to renew the United States’ efforts to help Israel achieve peace with
its neighbors while remaining vigilant against those who do not share this
vision. Our job is to do more than lay out another road map; our job is
to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the
region.
That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of
Israel: our strongest ally in the region and its only established
democracy. That will always be my starting point. And when we see all of
the growing threats in the region: from Iran to Iraq to the resurgence of
al-Qaeda to the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah, that loyalty and
that friendship will guide me as we begin to lay the stones that will
build the road that takes us from the current instability to lasting peace
and security."
Cherniak_(With Total Fairness) as opposed to the other Cherniak. Welcome back. I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteSlippery Clinton, "What is 'is'"
LeDaro:
ReplyDeleteYou are mistaken.
That is not a quote from Bill Clinton, those are the words of the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama.
That is not a quote from Bill Clinton, those are the words of the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama
ReplyDeleteAnd?
Does it make it right?
Here:
"efore the election, Mr. Obama made his feelings about the Likud Party known when he said, "I think there is a strain within the pro-Israel community that says unless you adopt an unwavering pro-Likud approach to Israel that you're anti-Israel and that can't be the measure of our friendship with Israel."
C-Nuck, you're confused. First you were putting all your bets on Bill Clinton and then you give a quote without naming the author.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Obama has expressed grave concern about the well being of Palestinians and made millions of dollars available for reconstruction of Gaza. He does not talk about apartheid one way or the other. He believes in peace and there is nothing wrong with that. Israel wants total subjugation of Palestinians and no peace. You're deflecting again.
As you know WTF, because I have stated it on a number of posts, I would be a Labour voter if I lived in Israel.
ReplyDeleteI love what President Obama said in support of Israel.
He is a clear and rational thinker. He isa strong, vocal and dear friend of Israel.
He is a strong and vocal opponent of Hamas (and Hizbollah).
Obama-mania !!!
Le Daro
ReplyDeleteStephen Harper has given the Palestinians $350 million for capacity building and reconstruction.
I guess by that measure you would say that Harper has proven that he is a great friend of the Palestinians and believes that Israel is a demon state.
No one is indicating here to be an enemy of Israel only repugnance for the actions of Israeli government. Likud is far right extremist and even Obama does not agree with that as Cherniak WTF pointed out.
ReplyDeleteI will wager you that Obama will welcome Natanyahu at the White House shortly after he becomes Prime Minister (if he does).
ReplyDeleteIt has been Likud Governments of Israel that have signed Peace Accords. Obama knows that.
C-Nuck you're jumping all over the place. From Clinton to Obama to Harper now. That is completely different topic. Make up your mind. Stop the cluster bombing approach to your argument.
ReplyDeleteTell me LeDaro, what about Israel do you support?
ReplyDeleteYou don't like its Government, fine. What about Israel do you like?
Its free press? (The only one in the middle east)
Its Gay Pride Parade every year (the only one in the middle east)
Its female chief justice of the supreme court (the only one in the middle east)
How about its independant Judiciary (the only one in the middle east)
What exactly do you admire about Israel?
John Kerry, a friend of Obama, was in Gaza to assess the destruction. So Natanyahu will have a lot to answer.
ReplyDeleteIs it part of the judiciary to kill women and children in Gaza. 400 children alone in Janaury of this year? Some judiciary.
ReplyDeleteHere are two quotes from Kerry from his visit to Gaza:
ReplyDeleteThe visit "does not indicate any shift whatsoever with respect to Hamas," said Kerry, who heads the Senate's powerful foreign relations committee.
"Your political leadership needs to understand that any nation that has rockets coming into it over many years, threatening its citizens, is going to respond," Kerry told Shar Habeel al-Zaim.
I am sure that Senator Kerry will brief his friend the President.
since 2002, Canadian, US and NATO troops have killed between 8,000 and 26,000 civilians in Afghanistan.
ReplyDeleteCivilian deaths are tragic.
In the asymetrical warefare that Hamas and the Taliban have chosen to pursue (i.e. putting civilians in harms way as human shields)it is bound to result in the death of innocent civilians.
Do you suggest that Canadian and NATO forces be subject to war crime trials?
You're very selective in your quotes. He also said, "People, innocent children, women and non-combatants, are going without water, food and sanitation, while the things they so desperately need are sitting in trucks at the border, being denied permission to go in,"
ReplyDeletePerhaps you would like to correct your last post.
ReplyDeleteThe quote is not from Kerry.
"US and NATO troops have killed between 8,000 and 26,000 civilians in Afghanistan." So that is justification for Israel to kill Palestinian women and children. Some logic. Man you're out of it.
ReplyDeleteThat was Rep. Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to the US Congress.
ReplyDeleteIt is not justification. It is what happens in war.
ReplyDeleteWar is ugly. Canadians kill civilians in Afghanistan and Israelis kill civilians in Gaza. Not because they target or want to kill them. It happens because the enemy combattants want it to happen and conduct their actions to ensure that their civilians get killed.
Oh my God. Poor James Curran said that someone's great-grand father was Jew and he was accused of being anti-Semite. Now what is this? If the congressman is Muslim then he is wrong. What is your point?
ReplyDeleteNo, you said the quote was from Senator John Kerry, the President's good friend.
ReplyDeleteI corrected you.
Yes there are pictures after pictures on the net where Israeli soldiers are pointing guns at children and some cases run them over with their tanks. You're comparing apples with oranges.
ReplyDeleteThis does not justify killings in Afghanistan and those who purposely kill civilians there must be tried for war crimes as well.
What is the purpose of saying that he is a Muslim? He is speaking the truth and that is what matters. Are you denying it?
ReplyDeleteApples and Oranges.
ReplyDeleteYou are right. Far more civilians have been killed by Canadian, US and NATO troops in Afghanistan than were killed in Gaza.
In neither case were the civilians targetted. They were in harms way because the Taliban and Hamas want them there, as Human Shields.
It is tragic that civilians are used in that matter by Hamas and the Taliban.
Those are the war crimes.
LeDaro:
ReplyDeleteYou said it was a quote from Kerry.
It is a quote that is not his.\
Why did you say that it is someting said by the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee.
You mislead your readers.
You still do not tell me that why you said that he is a Muslim? What was the purpose of that? Care to explain.
ReplyDeleteI decided to check if what you attributed to John Kerry were indeed his words or if you were fabricating them.
ReplyDeleteWhen I checked they came up as the words of Ellison.
Here is how he was described:
"America's first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison (D-Mn.)"
If you find it offensive that I quoted from a Democratic Party website, so be it.
The point is you lied on your own blog. You have yet to apologize.
Apparentlly it was a racist remark that the guy is a Muslim therefore he cannot be trusted. Do not take the refuge of any Democratic Party Website because they were not involved in this kind of debate.
ReplyDeleteYou're not much different from the anti-Semite guy whose comments I always delete. You're the other extreme.
Do you suggest that Canadian and NATO forces be subject to war crime trials?
ReplyDeleteYes.
I expect that our soldiers be held to the same standard that we judge others.
Its free press? (The only one in the middle east)
ReplyDeletesorry - that's rather heavily censored and has to follow "official" guidelines...
Its Gay Pride Parade every year (the only one in the middle east)
Sure, why not.
But lets not forget that Canada could do better with regards to accepting gays...
Its female chief justice of the supreme court (the only one in the middle east)
Nope.
How about its independant Judiciary (the only one in the middle east)
LOL
CWTF, I agree. I do not understand why the guy keeps referring to Afghanistan because I do not support atrocities there either and I believe you have the same views.
ReplyDeleteNot because they target or want to kill them.
ReplyDeleteThat's right, it's called "targeted assassination" and the murder of children is taken for granted and barely warrants a mention - but if it were Jews that were killed..... now c-nuck would be all indignant...
In neither case were the civilians targetted. They were in harms way because the Taliban and Hamas want them there, as Human Shields.
ReplyDeleteThat is bullshit and you know it.
I'm really tired of fear mongering hypocrites. I rarely have the time or patience for your kind of idiocy.
So how's our little adventure in Afghanistan going? I predict that we will loose...
CWTF, I agree. I do not understand why the guy keeps referring to Afghanistan because I do not support atrocities there either and I believe you have the same views.
ReplyDeleteLikely because c-nuck is a hypocrite and expects you to be also....
I will strongly suggest that he should change his nickname from C-Nuck to C-Nile. He is all over the map and no succinct argument.
ReplyDeleteStill no admission that you lied about John Kerry's quote.
ReplyDeleteLying is your expertise. I read a long article in a short time and that is how error took place because both gentlemen were being quoted extensively. This I did after you quoted John Kerry. Here is the link to the article:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gOF0n_LTErkVvM4jse6ELJUOEMig
Now stop bull*&^%*&ing.
There is a tear in my heart too.
ReplyDeleteMakes me wonder what the Jewish people in Israel are teaching their children.
Israel has had so many wonderful folk songs and dances and music, like : And every man 'neath his vine and fig tree, shall live in peace and harmony" or "Enai matov ehmanehim, shevatavoh gunyaheem."(the spelling of the Hebrew is wrong I need to look it up... but it is a beautiful melody saying how good it is when we come together and sing songs of peace)
But, remember that Jewish Voices for Peace are very active about this. They have online petitions too.
Every country has too many conservative type voters!
Obama is a continuation of the same leadership under control of the same Zionist power bloc.. if you don't understand that you don't understand anything.
ReplyDeleteObama: Traitors in cabinet
Obama is more of the same, doing the bidding of AIPAC.
Look for more horrors, guaranteed!
Israel is a western-style democracy being pressured to make peace with a neighbor that has attacked it over and over and over.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, people forget that the entire reason that the Palestinian people are displaced is that the entire Arab world declared war on Israel long before it was a nation.
How would Canada react if a large aboriginal group started launching frequent attacks? Would we react by peacefully letting them form their own nation where they would be free to continue to launch attacks?
It would go a long way if people stopped seeing Israelis as so different from themselves. Regardless of their religion, Israel is a nation of modern Western-style life, and until people (like the other commenters here) see them as such, it will continue to be an ignorance dump for the masses.
Israel is a western-style democracy being pressured to make peace with a neighbor that has attacked it over and over and over.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, people forget that the entire reason that the Palestinian people are displaced is that the entire Arab world declared war on Israel long before it was a nation.
How would Canada react if a large aboriginal group started launching frequent attacks? Would we react by peacefully letting them form their own nation where they would be free to continue to launch attacks?
It would go a long way if people stopped seeing Israelis as so different from themselves. Regardless of their religion, Israel is a nation of modern Western-style life, and until people (like the other commenters here) see them as such, it will continue to be an ignorance dump for the masses.