My post was removed from the Liblog without any notice. What is Liblog about - censoring freedom of expression in this manner. I want to know. I am sure many others will like to know too.
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It isn't as if you've got some "right" to be able to post to Liblogs. The site has a right to remove whatever it wishes, for any reason... it seems silly/absurd for you to see it any other way.
I was incorrect about the technology and deleted my comment. Apparently it is possible to delete from the aggregator a post with photos of mutilated and dead bodies.
Wow. The thing I find quite troubling, those pictures are an accurate representation of what is happening. The question then becomes, if it was a photo of someone injured from a Hamas rocket, would it still be there?? Sadly, it probably would.
Something has gone terribly wrong at Liblogs, and people need to show some detachment, personal views aside.
Steve V, people must not deny holocaust. By the same token current slaughter in Gaza must not be denied or ignored if we wish to learn from the history.
Liblog may not be official Liberal Party site but it does represent it. This current censorship is ridiculous.
The question then becomes, if it was a photo of someone injured from a Hamas rocket, would it still be there?? Sadly, it probably would. Of course it would. There is a pro-Isreali bias on liblogs. JC has made that very clear. Does it reflect the view of the "rank and file" of Liberals? I don't think so.
I think that the pictures (as disturbing as they are) are showing what is happening. Israel is trying to control the image coming out of Gaza because it's easier to manipulate the media (and people) if they are not show reality. It is easy to spew numbers and empty rhetoric (including lies) when you control the information.
Also, it's easy enough to influence/direct public opinion with labels... For example "Hamas is a terrorist organization" - Well yes but it is also much more than that. The political branch also provide much needed social services in the occupied territories. It also is relatively corruption free compared to Fatah - so it's not so black/white as people would like to infer...
Liblog may not be official Liberal Party site but it does represent it. This current censorship is ridiculous. You'd expect this from the Blogging Tories....
And yes, it does represent it. JC brownosed how important blogs where to the party and now is trying to backstep on that...
I certainly hope that there is a pro-Israel bias in the Liberal Party and Liblogs.
Israel is Canada's Ally and fellow democracy.
Canada and Israel share values of democracy, independant judiciary, a free press.
We both view issues such as Women's equality and gay rights as important values.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that was listed as such by a Liberal Government (Jean Chretien's in 2003).
hamas has fired over 10,000 rockets into Israel from Gaza since 2000 and over 3200 in the last year (even though Israel has fully withdrawn from the territory over 2 years ago).
Israel has allowed over 10 tons of humanitarian aid in Gaza in the last 10 days.
Hamas uses women and children as human shields (the ultimate war crime).
OF COURSE THE LIBERAL PARTY IS BIASED TOWARDS ISRAEL AND RIHTLY SO!!!!!
The Doctor, you should call yourself death doctor. Do not pretend to speak for the Liberal Party. Chretien did not say to go and slaughter people in Gaza.
Nothing justifies killing women and children. You must not hide such slaughter.
This move by Liblog dictators is going to backfire. You wait.
Women and children are being used by Hamas as human shields. Children are being snatched off the streets by Hamas gunmen to be used as shields. The video evidence exists!
Hamas put gunmen in an UNWRA school and fired mortars at Israeli troops, knowing full well that fire would be returned. Hamas put those children in harms way. That is the crime.
I agree with Steve V that "Something has gone terribly wrong at Liblogs"
I wondered the other day when JC (who said he had stopped blogging) posted the message that he did on Liblogs and I see that he has posted another one today. His blog site it still up and active, why is he not using it to state his views? Jason, if you are reading this please shed some light. Thanks
Liblogs has a pro-Israel bias? Hunh? If so, then why wasn't your anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian website banned a long long time ago?
Liblogs is a simple blog aggregator. It republishes posts others have written. It is a computer program more or less. There are limits, of course, there ought to be. Libel. Criminality. Beyond the pale in graphic violence. But so far making such ridiculous claims as the Gaza fight being genocide or a holocaust has not gotten anyone censored, and if that can't get you censored then it is by definition a pretty freakin' open and uncensorious blog aggregator, if you ask me.
The doctor is correct. Israel is a fellow democracy, whose values mirror those of Canada and the Liberal Party. The very fact that it has tried to avoid civilian deaths sets it apart from Hamas.
Hamas on the other hand is notorious for its persecution of religious minorities, killings of homosexuals, and torture of those Palestinians who contradict its calls for violence against Israel.
How can anyone who calls themselves a Liberal, or a liberal for that matter, side with an organization who puts a premium on the death of Israeli civilians and purposefully puts its own children in harms way?
Don't get me wrong, the death of a single civilian, whoever they might be, is a tragedy. Nevertheless the qualitative difference between Israeli and Hamas ethos and tactics should be noted, and reflected in Liberal and Liblogs policy.
The "You are getting your knickers in a knot" comment was directed at LeDaro and Cherniak_WTF. Thought I'd clarify since there were some intervening comments.
It just never ceases to stun me how quickly Liberals prefer to attack each other over events in the Middle East, than they do evil-doers in the Middle East, such that a post on Liblogs asking to tone down the rhetoric is seen as more incendiary than Hamas getting children killed.
Ted, you're a double faced hypocrite. If the pictures are form holocaust then no problem. However, if it is about slaughter in Gaza then it is a no,no.
I suppose Palestinians are not human beings in your book. How more cold-blooded you guys will get.
It just never ceases to stun me how quickly Liberals prefer to attack each other over events in the Middle East, than they do evil-doers in the Middle East, such that a post on Liblogs asking to tone down the rhetoric is seen as more incendiary than Hamas getting children killed.
I prefer to have a middle ground and neutral...
Evil-Doers? How very bushian of you...
So Ted, how many children have Hamas killed? And since you like number, how many have the IDF killed? C'mom put your bigboy pants on and answer that without any of the normal pro-Isreali claptrap... Or are you trying to say that the life of an Israeli is worth more....
For any liberal out there, if you do not like JC's Liblogs, create your own agregate blog.
I don't agree with things he writes. Liblogs is his. If he wants to delete blogposts by others, that's his choice. If you don't like his Liblogs rules (written or not), then quit being a Liblogger.
Ted, more you justify this slaughter, because it is done by a democratic country, more dreadful it looks. You guys are doing more damage to the cause of Israel than help.
Justifying slaughter? By my Jewish friends. Horrible.
Luckily I know few Jewish leaders and they are decent people and not butcher-minded like you.
So we are no longer allowed to consider something evil because a particular US President sees the world as black and white, good and evil? That ridiculous. To me, something is "evil" not when a bad result happens but when that bad result was intended to happen.
I think intentionally trying to kill civilians as a political tactic is very wrong and yes, evil. I am surprised when "Liberals" claim that it is OK.
I think using children as shields to do that is very wrong and yes, evil. I am surprised when "Liberals" claim that it is OK.
It sickens me to see Palestinians killed, children or not. It sickens me to see historical pictures of German children dead from WWII as well, or children in Hiroshima after the bomb. They had no part in starting or supporting the war. To suggest anyone is happy about that is almost as disgusting as saying the Israelis are committing genocide. War sickens me and the results of war sickens me.
If Israel has been deliberately targetting Palestinian children and civilians, and deliberately trying to kill them, then that would be wrong and evil as well. If they are deliberately trying to kill Palestinian civilians, however, then they must be the most incompetent military in history because with the amount of fire power they have, the awful end results sure look a heck of a lot more like collateral damage than targetted genocide.
I don't think it is mere rhetoric to say that a country should be allowed to defend itself against indescriminate bombing of its innocent citizens. I've never once heard from any anti-Israel commenter about a reasonable suggestion as to how they are to protect themselves from Hamas or try to stop Hamas without having a single collateral death when Hamas will launch it's rockets from civilian neighbourhoods? Go knock on the door and ask them to stop, pretty please???
Ted, if Israelis are not killing women and children then are you telling me all these pictures are fake?
Yes Hamas must not fire rockets into Israel. On the other side of the equation is to remove blockades and let the Palestinians live like humans. If you keep people oppressed then there will be resistance and revolt. It is human nature and we must learn from history.
You have really gone off the deep-end now. The over-the-top rhetoric you are now spewing is not only so horribly spelled and without a hint of any grammatical education, it is mindless drivel. I'm now a slaughterer? I don't care about dead Palestinians because I disagree with you?
Like I said before, it astounds me how people like you (and, don't get me wrong, there are certainly equivalents on the other side like Ezra Levant) seem to prefer to vent your pent up rage on a foreign issue like this on other Liberals with personal attacks and insults.
At least with a pro-Palestinian commenter like a James Curran and to a lesser extent Cherniak_WTF, it appears a coherent and sometimes civil disagreement is possible. As you can see, at least when Cherniak_WTF disagrees, he starts attacking the issues and facts. But with you, not a hope.
Again, and I'll type it slowly so maybe it will sink in, I have absolutely no problem with a range of opinions on the Middle East. I have no problem with a range of very strongly held divergent opinions being expressed. But I fail to understand how a war between two parties overseas should be generating such heated overblown rhetoric targetting a people ("genocide" type comments) or your own fellow citizens, fellow Liberals for holding a different view. And I just wish we would all tone it down a bit.
"Hamas must not fire rockets into Israel. On the other side of the equation is to remove blockades and let the Palestinians live like humans. If you keep people oppressed then there will be resistance and revolt. It is human nature and we must learn from history."
Golly, LeDaro. That soooo much sounds like you are justifying Hamas targetting and killing innocent Israeli civilians in its "resistance". But surely, that cannot be the case can it?
Interesting historical fact: the blockade was a response to the indiscriminate bombing of its citizens that started a few days after the ceasefire. Didn't work. The targetted response by Israel was also a response to the indiscriminate bombings. Didn't work either. Now the groundwar.
I'm not a Liberal, so I probably shouldn't horn in here, but with Cherniak running Liblogs, you won't get much criticism of Israel permitted--he thinks it's anti-Semitic.
The vast majority of Canadians didn't tone it down when the US planned their invasion of Iraq on lies and vindictiveness. Chretien was astute enough to keep Canada out of that human rights atrocity and Canadians were relieved, as well as perceived as honest brokers on the world stage.
Few complain about posting photos of deprivation and carnage in Darfur or ask people to tone down their language when discussing that humanitarian crisis. And despite Harper's attempts to rally support for our involvement in Afghanistan, most Canadians still don't support the mission and are not condemned to insults or censorship when expressing their dismay with what goes on there in our name. Photos included.
When Hamas placed two gunmen in a Gaza School and fired at Israeli troops from that location, who was responsible for the children that got killed?
You should recheck that story and replace with the truth. Have a lot at: http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/ -- For those who read only the first two paragraphs of a news story:
GAZA, Gaza Strip — Israeli mortar shells struck outside a UN school where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge Tuesday, killing at least 30 people — many of them children whose parents wailed in grief at a hospital filled with dead and wounded.
The Israeli army said its soldiers came under fire from militants hiding in the school and responded. It accused Gaza's Hamas rulers of "cynically" using civilians as human shields. Residents confirmed the account, saying militants were seen staging attacks from the area. [emphasis added --DD] Thirteen paragraphs down:
Two neighbourhood residents confirmed the Israeli account, saying a group of militants fired mortars from a street near the school, then fled into a crowd of people in the streets. Israel then opened fire.
Note: "a street near" the school. And then: "a group of militants...fled into a crowd...Israel then opened fire." --
Felton has been writing anti_-srael diatribes for 20 years in Washington Reprt (a magazine that most libraries refuse to accept because it is so full of hate)
Ted, thanks for elaborating. It's easy to spout soundbytes and blogging/posting does not often allow for nuances...
While the militant Hamas maybe evil, I see it as a reaction to Israeli actions over the years. There is a reason why Hamas exist and, to me, it's a reaction to Israeli policies.
Less corrupt then Fatah. You mena like hijacking humanitarian aid and selling it to gazans? Or perhaps by throwing Fatah opponents from the rooftops of buildings. Or perhaps by forcing children to act as human sheilds.
Gene, what Liblog is doing is definitely anti-Liberal. It is doing an extra-ordinary damage to the Liberal Party. Sooner the Party realizes it better it is for its existence.
To 'The Doctor' who writes: "Hamas is deemed a terrorist organization under Canada's Criminal Code. Our legislators know what they are doing. You don't."
Actually, some of us ARE very much aware of what is going on here. It's not that "our legislators know what they are doing"; it's more that they know who is calling the shots ... and surprise, surprise, it ain't us!
As for Fatah and Hamas, perhaps this will shed some light on the struggle that went on in Gaza between them. Somehow, I feel you knew about all this.
Wow, Gene. That is great. That is brilliant. I just knew somehow this all had to be Bush's fault. Thank you for proving that with your link to someone's blog post. Now we can all stop focusing our attacks on each other and go back to blaming the US for all problems everywhere.
And to think some people still wonder why the Liberals are out of power in Canada.
Ted, censorship of speech is the first stage of oppression and dictatorship. If that is the objective of the Liblog then it sure is going to bring Liberal back to power or may be Harper will be a better choice in that scenario.
Leaving aside what Liblogs should and should not be doing, I said it once to you.. I'll say it again - Greg Felton is one of the least credible persons to be quoting in defence of any argument you make about this.
"While the militant Hamas maybe evil, I see it as a reaction to Israeli actions over the years. There is a reason why Hamas exist and, to me, it's a reaction to Israeli policies."
Are you trying to boil it down to a ends justify the means question? That deliberately killing innocent Israeli civilians is justified because... what? what is the Hamas ends here? This has never been clear to me, especially now. Maybe you can explain (and I don't mean that sarcastically and it is not a rhetorical question).
There was a ceasefire. Israel unilaterally moved its soldiers out of Gaza and started abandoning settlements without any quid pro quo. Days later, Hamas started firing rockets. If your claim is that it is in response to years of repression, I don't believe that but even if it were true, retaliation of that sort cannot be justified even on your grounds.
Are you saying the indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian neighbourhoods are a response to the wall? Again, there is far too huge a gap between ends and means to justify Hamas' actions.
For how many months of breaking the ceasefire did Hamas target only military and government buildings before targetting innocent civilians? When did they escalate to attacking civilians or were they attacking civilians from day 1? I think you probably know that they were doing so from day 1 and so the next question is, what would you have a government do when it's citizens are attacked in their homes?
Like I said before I've never heard any pro-Palestinian or anti-Israel commenter respond to that simple question.
I do not in anyway support anything that Hamas does. Well I do - they have offered much needed social services and are less corrupt than Fatah.
With all due respect, that is like supporting the Mafia because they offer protection to the neighbourhood store. They threw a neighbourhood parade and fireworks for John Gotti when he was out on bail.
Scott Tribe, thank you. I do not know the person. After the turd McParland of National Compost attacked me I came across his column on the turd. I will read more about him to understand him better.
Ted, go read ...here and also here: [Start where it says: "There is also some appalling misinformation being spread – one frequently hears the claim that Israel left Gaza in 2005 in order to build peace but all it received was terror."]
"Ted, censorship of speech is the first stage of oppression and dictatorship."
Are you serious? Where have you been censored? Seems your graphic death-porn is still up on your site. I don't want to see that at work or at anytime without a warning or without choice. And that has nothing to do with Hamas or Israel.
You are free to publish whatever your juvenile mind wants. You don't have a right to force me to see it.
I can choose to come to this site or not. I cannot choose what appears on the Liblogs aggregator.
You won't find a bigger Liberal defender of free expression in me LeDaro, but deleting your graphic death-porn from automatically appearing on my computer at work without my choice is neither censorship nor a problem.
It isn't as if you've got some "right" to be able to post to Liblogs. The site has a right to remove whatever it wishes, for any reason... it seems silly/absurd for you to see it any other way.
ReplyDeleteStop whining and drop the sense of entitlement.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTry posting it again. Let's see what's going on.
ReplyDeleteChristopher, I do not where you came from. Go back to your hole of stone age.
ReplyDeleteTed: Apparently it was posted automatically and then it disappeared. Is this Liberal Party Policy?
I was incorrect about the technology and deleted my comment. Apparently it is possible to delete from the aggregator a post with photos of mutilated and dead bodies.
ReplyDeleteTed: I am not the only one who is posting photos of slaughter. Many other Liblog bloggers are doing it. We cannot hide the realty in this manner.
ReplyDeleteWow. The thing I find quite troubling, those pictures are an accurate representation of what is happening. The question then becomes, if it was a photo of someone injured from a Hamas rocket, would it still be there?? Sadly, it probably would.
ReplyDeleteSomething has gone terribly wrong at Liblogs, and people need to show some detachment, personal views aside.
Jymn, it was deleted. I want to wait before reposting as to what official policy is.
ReplyDeleteSteve V, people must not deny holocaust. By the same token current slaughter in Gaza must not be denied or ignored if we wish to learn from the history.
ReplyDeleteLiblog may not be official Liberal Party site but it does represent it. This current censorship is ridiculous.
The question then becomes, if it was a photo of someone injured from a Hamas rocket, would it still be there?? Sadly, it probably would.
ReplyDeleteOf course it would.
There is a pro-Isreali bias on liblogs. JC has made that very clear.
Does it reflect the view of the "rank and file" of Liberals? I don't think so.
I think that the pictures (as disturbing as they are) are showing what is happening. Israel is trying to control the image coming out of Gaza because it's easier to manipulate the media (and people) if they are not show reality. It is easy to spew numbers and empty rhetoric (including lies) when you control the information.
Also, it's easy enough to influence/direct public opinion with labels... For example "Hamas is a terrorist organization" - Well yes but it is also much more than that. The political branch also provide much needed social services in the occupied territories. It also is relatively corruption free compared to Fatah - so it's not so black/white as people would like to infer...
Liblog may not be official Liberal Party site but it does represent it. This current censorship is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteYou'd expect this from the Blogging Tories....
And yes, it does represent it. JC brownosed how important blogs where to the party and now is trying to backstep on that...
I certainly hope that there is a pro-Israel bias in the Liberal Party and Liblogs.
ReplyDeleteIsrael is Canada's Ally and fellow democracy.
Canada and Israel share values of democracy, independant judiciary, a free press.
We both view issues such as Women's equality and gay rights as important values.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that was listed as such by a Liberal Government (Jean Chretien's in 2003).
hamas has fired over 10,000 rockets into Israel from Gaza since 2000 and over 3200 in the last year (even though Israel has fully withdrawn from the territory over 2 years ago).
Israel has allowed over 10 tons of humanitarian aid in Gaza in the last 10 days.
Hamas uses women and children as human shields (the ultimate war crime).
OF COURSE THE LIBERAL PARTY IS BIASED TOWARDS ISRAEL AND RIHTLY SO!!!!!
The Doctor, you should call yourself death doctor. Do not pretend to speak for the Liberal Party. Chretien did not say to go and slaughter people in Gaza.
ReplyDeleteNothing justifies killing women and children. You must not hide such slaughter.
This move by Liblog dictators is going to backfire. You wait.
When did you post the post that was removed LeDaro? I haven't seen it as I was busy with other things.
ReplyDeletePenlan, it was posted around noon today. It appeared on Liblog and then suddenly was removed.
ReplyDeleteWomen and children are being used by Hamas as human shields. Children are being snatched off the streets by Hamas gunmen to be used as shields. The video evidence exists!
ReplyDeleteHamas put gunmen in an UNWRA school and fired mortars at Israeli troops, knowing full well that fire would be returned. Hamas put those children in harms way. That is the crime.
I agree with Steve V that "Something has gone terribly wrong at Liblogs"
ReplyDeleteI wondered the other day when JC (who said he had stopped blogging) posted the message that he did on Liblogs and I see that he has posted another one today. His blog site it still up and active, why is he not using it to state his views? Jason, if you are reading this please shed some light. Thanks
You are getting your knickers in a knot.
ReplyDeleteLiblogs "represents the Liberal Party"? Hunh?
Liblogs has a pro-Israel bias? Hunh? If so, then why wasn't your anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian website banned a long long time ago?
Liblogs is a simple blog aggregator. It republishes posts others have written. It is a computer program more or less. There are limits, of course, there ought to be. Libel. Criminality. Beyond the pale in graphic violence. But so far making such ridiculous claims as the Gaza fight being genocide or a holocaust has not gotten anyone censored, and if that can't get you censored then it is by definition a pretty freakin' open and uncensorious blog aggregator, if you ask me.
The doctor is correct. Israel is a fellow democracy, whose values mirror those of Canada and the Liberal Party. The very fact that it has tried to avoid civilian deaths sets it apart from Hamas.
ReplyDeleteHamas on the other hand is notorious for its persecution of religious minorities, killings of homosexuals, and torture of those Palestinians who contradict its calls for violence against Israel.
How can anyone who calls themselves a Liberal, or a liberal for that matter, side with an organization who puts a premium on the death of Israeli civilians and purposefully puts its own children in harms way?
Don't get me wrong, the death of a single civilian, whoever they might be, is a tragedy. Nevertheless the qualitative difference between Israeli and Hamas ethos and tactics should be noted, and reflected in Liberal and Liblogs policy.
The "You are getting your knickers in a knot" comment was directed at LeDaro and Cherniak_WTF. Thought I'd clarify since there were some intervening comments.
ReplyDeleteIt just never ceases to stun me how quickly Liberals prefer to attack each other over events in the Middle East, than they do evil-doers in the Middle East, such that a post on Liblogs asking to tone down the rhetoric is seen as more incendiary than Hamas getting children killed.
Bizarre.
The Doctor is a troll - likely a Connie given his recently acquired account....
ReplyDeleteTed, you're a double faced hypocrite. If the pictures are form holocaust then no problem. However, if it is about slaughter in Gaza then it is a no,no.
ReplyDeleteI suppose Palestinians are not human beings in your book. How more cold-blooded you guys will get.
Better Liberal credentials then you WTF
ReplyDeleteIt just never ceases to stun me how quickly Liberals prefer to attack each other over events in the Middle East, than they do evil-doers in the Middle East, such that a post on Liblogs asking to tone down the rhetoric is seen as more incendiary than Hamas getting children killed.
ReplyDeleteI prefer to have a middle ground and neutral...
Evil-Doers? How very bushian of you...
So Ted, how many children have Hamas killed?
And since you like number, how many have the IDF killed?
C'mom put your bigboy pants on and answer that without any of the normal pro-Isreali claptrap... Or are you trying to say that the life of an Israeli is worth more....
For any liberal out there, if you do not like JC's Liblogs, create your own agregate blog.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with things he writes. Liblogs is his. If he wants to delete blogposts by others, that's his choice. If you don't like his Liblogs rules (written or not), then quit being a Liblogger.
Ted, more you justify this slaughter, because it is done by a democratic country, more dreadful it looks. You guys are doing more damage to the cause of Israel than help.
ReplyDeleteJustifying slaughter? By my Jewish friends. Horrible.
Luckily I know few Jewish leaders and they are decent people and not butcher-minded like you.
WTF;
ReplyDeleteWhen Hamas placed two gunmen in a Gaza School and fired at Israeli troops from that location, who was responsible for the children that got killed?
So we are no longer allowed to consider something evil because a particular US President sees the world as black and white, good and evil? That ridiculous. To me, something is "evil" not when a bad result happens but when that bad result was intended to happen.
ReplyDeleteI think intentionally trying to kill civilians as a political tactic is very wrong and yes, evil. I am surprised when "Liberals" claim that it is OK.
I think using children as shields to do that is very wrong and yes, evil. I am surprised when "Liberals" claim that it is OK.
It sickens me to see Palestinians killed, children or not. It sickens me to see historical pictures of German children dead from WWII as well, or children in Hiroshima after the bomb. They had no part in starting or supporting the war. To suggest anyone is happy about that is almost as disgusting as saying the Israelis are committing genocide. War sickens me and the results of war sickens me.
If Israel has been deliberately targetting Palestinian children and civilians, and deliberately trying to kill them, then that would be wrong and evil as well. If they are deliberately trying to kill Palestinian civilians, however, then they must be the most incompetent military in history because with the amount of fire power they have, the awful end results sure look a heck of a lot more like collateral damage than targetted genocide.
I don't think it is mere rhetoric to say that a country should be allowed to defend itself against indescriminate bombing of its innocent citizens. I've never once heard from any anti-Israel commenter about a reasonable suggestion as to how they are to protect themselves from Hamas or try to stop Hamas without having a single collateral death when Hamas will launch it's rockets from civilian neighbourhoods? Go knock on the door and ask them to stop, pretty please???
Death Doctor, my friend that is not what UN rep said in Gaza? He said ..”these people were taking shelter here and now they are dead”.
ReplyDeleteYou are hurting your own cause by being so cold-blooded.
Ted, if Israelis are not killing women and children then are you telling me all these pictures are fake?
ReplyDeleteYes Hamas must not fire rockets into Israel. On the other side of the equation is to remove blockades and let the Palestinians live like humans. If you keep people oppressed then there will be resistance and revolt. It is human nature and we must learn from history.
LeDaro:
ReplyDeleteYou have really gone off the deep-end now. The over-the-top rhetoric you are now spewing is not only so horribly spelled and without a hint of any grammatical education, it is mindless drivel. I'm now a slaughterer? I don't care about dead Palestinians because I disagree with you?
Like I said before, it astounds me how people like you (and, don't get me wrong, there are certainly equivalents on the other side like Ezra Levant) seem to prefer to vent your pent up rage on a foreign issue like this on other Liberals with personal attacks and insults.
At least with a pro-Palestinian commenter like a James Curran and to a lesser extent Cherniak_WTF, it appears a coherent and sometimes civil disagreement is possible. As you can see, at least when Cherniak_WTF disagrees, he starts attacking the issues and facts. But with you, not a hope.
Again, and I'll type it slowly so maybe it will sink in, I have absolutely no problem with a range of opinions on the Middle East. I have no problem with a range of very strongly held divergent opinions being expressed. But I fail to understand how a war between two parties overseas should be generating such heated overblown rhetoric targetting a people ("genocide" type comments) or your own fellow citizens, fellow Liberals for holding a different view. And I just wish we would all tone it down a bit.
" Israelis are not killing women and children then are you telling me all these pictures are fake"
ReplyDeleteSee what I mean, LeDaro? You made that up. Where did I say they are not?
"Hamas must not fire rockets into Israel. On the other side of the equation is to remove blockades and let the Palestinians live like humans. If you keep people oppressed then there will be resistance and revolt. It is human nature and we must learn from history."
ReplyDeleteGolly, LeDaro. That soooo much sounds like you are justifying Hamas targetting and killing innocent Israeli civilians in its "resistance". But surely, that cannot be the case can it?
Interesting historical fact: the blockade was a response to the indiscriminate bombing of its citizens that started a few days after the ceasefire. Didn't work. The targetted response by Israel was also a response to the indiscriminate bombings. Didn't work either. Now the groundwar.
Ted, I am very angry about this censorship and may be I am not checking my grammar.
ReplyDeleteHowever, your justifications of killing Palestinians are making no sense to me. All humans are equal and Palestinians are humans too.
I'm not a Liberal, so I probably shouldn't horn in here, but with Cherniak running Liblogs, you won't get much criticism of Israel permitted--he thinks it's anti-Semitic.
ReplyDeleteThe vast majority of Canadians didn't tone it down when the US planned their invasion of Iraq on lies and vindictiveness. Chretien was astute enough to keep Canada out of that human rights atrocity and Canadians were relieved, as well as perceived as honest brokers on the world stage.
ReplyDeleteFew complain about posting photos of deprivation and carnage in Darfur or ask people to tone down their language when discussing that humanitarian crisis. And despite Harper's attempts to rally support for our involvement in Afghanistan, most Canadians still don't support the mission and are not condemned to insults or censorship when expressing their dismay with what goes on there in our name. Photos included.
Ted, I understand this gentleman here reports from the area:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.gregfelton.com/middle/2009_01_04.htm
Is Greg Felton that wrong? He is not Hamas. Why are you playing so self-righteous?
Someone above wrote: "Israel is a fellow democracy, whose values mirror those of Canada and the Liberal Party."
ReplyDeleteI DON'T THINK SO!
Still, here is a somewhat more complex read on the subject.
P.S. LeDaro, I hope the problem you bring up is resolved soon.
WTF;
ReplyDeleteWhen Hamas placed two gunmen in a Gaza School and fired at Israeli troops from that location, who was responsible for the children that got killed?
You should recheck that story and replace with the truth.
Have a lot at: http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/
--
For those who read only the first two paragraphs of a news story:
GAZA, Gaza Strip — Israeli mortar shells struck outside a UN school where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge Tuesday, killing at least 30 people — many of them children whose parents wailed in grief at a hospital filled with dead and wounded.
The Israeli army said its soldiers came under fire from militants hiding in the school and responded. It accused Gaza's Hamas rulers of "cynically" using civilians as human shields. Residents confirmed the account, saying militants were seen staging attacks from the area. [emphasis added --DD]
Thirteen paragraphs down:
Two neighbourhood residents confirmed the Israeli account, saying a group of militants fired mortars from a street near the school, then fled into a crowd of people in the streets. Israel then opened fire.
Note: "a street near" the school. And then: "a group of militants...fled into a crowd...Israel then opened fire."
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Greg Felton on Liblogs????
ReplyDeleteFelton has been writing anti_-srael diatribes for 20 years in Washington Reprt (a magazine that most libraries refuse to accept because it is so full of hate)
The Doctor, come on now. And you're not full of hate?
ReplyDeleteThere are Palestinian witnesses to the Hamas Gunmen in the School.
ReplyDeleteCheck AP story.
No LeDaro I'm not full of hate.
ReplyDeleteI support a two-State solution.
I support the PA and its President who was run-out of Gaza.
I do not in anyway support anything that Hamas does.
Ted, thanks for elaborating.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to spout soundbytes and blogging/posting does not often allow for nuances...
While the militant Hamas maybe evil, I see it as a reaction to Israeli actions over the years. There is a reason why Hamas exist and, to me, it's a reaction to Israeli policies.
Two Hamas Gunmen's bodies were found in the school.
ReplyDeleteIsrael does not target civilians.
Hamas places civilians in harms way.
The Doctor, the comments are from the AP story - learn how to comprehend instead of swallowing what you want to believe..
ReplyDeleteI do not in anyway support anything that Hamas does.
Well I do - they have offered much needed social services and are less corrupt than Fatah.
Hamas places civilians in harms way.
ReplyDeleteAn Israel does by building illegal settlements... Next.
Well WTF you are offside with Canadian law with your support of Hamas.
ReplyDeleteHams is deemed a terrorist organization under Canada's Criminal Code.
Our legislators know what they are doing. You don't.
Less corrupt then Fatah.
ReplyDeleteYou mena like hijacking humanitarian aid and selling it to gazans?
Or perhaps by throwing Fatah opponents from the rooftops of buildings.
Or perhaps by forcing children to act as human sheilds.
Gene, what Liblog is doing is definitely anti-Liberal. It is doing an extra-ordinary damage to the Liberal Party. Sooner the Party realizes it better it is for its existence.
ReplyDeleteThe Doctor, I see you have all your troll and facile talking points - maybe reality and nuance next time? Yes?
ReplyDeleteJust fact WTF.
ReplyDeleteI know you don't like them but they are facts.
To 'The Doctor' who writes: "Hamas is deemed a terrorist organization under Canada's Criminal Code. Our legislators know what they are doing. You don't."
ReplyDeleteActually, some of us ARE very much aware of what is going on here. It's not that "our legislators know what they are doing"; it's more that they know who is calling the shots ... and surprise, surprise, it ain't us!
As for Fatah and Hamas, perhaps this will shed some light on the struggle that went on in Gaza between them. Somehow, I feel you knew about all this.
Wow, Gene. That is great. That is brilliant. I just knew somehow this all had to be Bush's fault. Thank you for proving that with your link to someone's blog post. Now we can all stop focusing our attacks on each other and go back to blaming the US for all problems everywhere.
ReplyDeleteAnd to think some people still wonder why the Liberals are out of power in Canada.
Ted, censorship of speech is the first stage of oppression and dictatorship. If that is the objective of the Liblog then it sure is going to bring Liberal back to power or may be Harper will be a better choice in that scenario.
ReplyDeleteLeDaro:
ReplyDeleteLeaving aside what Liblogs should and should not be doing, I said it once to you.. I'll say it again - Greg Felton is one of the least credible persons to be quoting in defence of any argument you make about this.
WTF:
ReplyDelete"While the militant Hamas maybe evil, I see it as a reaction to Israeli actions over the years. There is a reason why Hamas exist and, to me, it's a reaction to Israeli policies."
Are you trying to boil it down to a ends justify the means question? That deliberately killing innocent Israeli civilians is justified because... what? what is the Hamas ends here? This has never been clear to me, especially now. Maybe you can explain (and I don't mean that sarcastically and it is not a rhetorical question).
There was a ceasefire. Israel unilaterally moved its soldiers out of Gaza and started abandoning settlements without any quid pro quo. Days later, Hamas started firing rockets. If your claim is that it is in response to years of repression, I don't believe that but even if it were true, retaliation of that sort cannot be justified even on your grounds.
Are you saying the indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian neighbourhoods are a response to the wall? Again, there is far too huge a gap between ends and means to justify Hamas' actions.
For how many months of breaking the ceasefire did Hamas target only military and government buildings before targetting innocent civilians? When did they escalate to attacking civilians or were they attacking civilians from day 1? I think you probably know that they were doing so from day 1 and so the next question is, what would you have a government do when it's citizens are attacked in their homes?
Like I said before I've never heard any pro-Palestinian or anti-Israel commenter respond to that simple question.
WTF:
ReplyDeleteI do not in anyway support anything that Hamas does.
Well I do - they have offered much needed social services and are less corrupt than Fatah.
With all due respect, that is like supporting the Mafia because they offer protection to the neighbourhood store. They threw a neighbourhood parade and fireworks for John Gotti when he was out on bail.
Scott Tribe, thank you. I do not know the person. After the turd McParland of National Compost attacked me I came across his column on the turd. I will read more about him to understand him better.
ReplyDeleteTed, go read ...here and also here: [Start where it says: "There is also some appalling misinformation being spread – one frequently hears the claim that Israel left Gaza in 2005 in order to build peace but all it received was terror."]
ReplyDelete"Ted, censorship of speech is the first stage of oppression and dictatorship."
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? Where have you been censored? Seems your graphic death-porn is still up on your site. I don't want to see that at work or at anytime without a warning or without choice. And that has nothing to do with Hamas or Israel.
You are free to publish whatever your juvenile mind wants. You don't have a right to force me to see it.
Ted, bigotted turd stay away from my blog if you do not want to face reality.
ReplyDeleteLeDaro, you just don't get it do you.
ReplyDeleteI can choose to come to this site or not. I cannot choose what appears on the Liblogs aggregator.
You won't find a bigger Liberal defender of free expression in me LeDaro, but deleting your graphic death-porn from automatically appearing on my computer at work without my choice is neither censorship nor a problem.
Ted, I can read between the lines. If Israel is exposed then you are all hyped up.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJ08GqXMr3YE&h=a78448601b25e5dc3f5a94ac6b022ab4
ReplyDeleteworth watching
Doctor you are a bigger buffoon than imagined...
ReplyDeletedo you read the comments on the links that you post:
I consider myself pro Iraeli but clearly this video is false the militant is clearly saving the child
Next....
Doctor Death, you have no credibility, so buzz off.
ReplyDelete